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3 people found the following review helpful:
by Harry Coburn (Atlanta, GA)
Unfortunately, I could not get very far into this game due to some poor verb implementations. This game could really use some thorough going-over by a beta tester or two. I got stopped cold by the bartender puzzle:
(Spoiler - click to show)I had the crumpled ten-dollar bill from kicking the dog and entered the bar. I knew I couldn't pay for a martini by using my card from previous tries. I sat at the stool and tried "order martini". The bartender ask for payment. The following commands all failed:
pay bartender
pay bartender with bill
pay bartender with ten-dollar bill
show bartender the ten-dollar bill
give bartender the ten-dollar bill
give the ten-dollar bill to bartender
pay for martini
pay for martini with ten-dollar bill
put bill on bar (it gets put on the bar, if you're not carrying the straw, but the bartender ignores it.)
There are also disambiguation errors, door troubles, and missing descriptions. I'm interested in playing more, since it's fun to play villains sometimes. However, the game is getting in the way of the story.
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Comments on this review
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BlitzWithGuns, January 23, 2015 - Reply
Hmm... I tried to wear the t-shirt, but it says that I'm forgetting something. Any help?
Hmm... I tried to wear the t-shirt, but it says that I'm forgetting something. Any help?
BlitzWithGuns, January 26, 2015 - Reply
Apparently, I can't smell good without wearing any clothes. I showered and I'm pretty sure I look clean. I can't wear any clothes and the spray doesn't allow me to use it unless I'm wearing something.
Apparently, I can't smell good without wearing any clothes. I showered and I'm pretty sure I look clean. I can't wear any clothes and the spray doesn't allow me to use it unless I'm wearing something.
Bagpiper, January 19, 2015 - Reply
Give bartender the ten-dollar bill works for me. What error did you get?
I thought that I tested it quite rigorously before I released it. Did you not understand that the bartender won't take your bill because he wants a tip, hence the sarcastic response?
What door troubles did you have? They just open for you. You don't really have to worry about doors.
Give bartender the ten-dollar bill works for me. What error did you get?
I thought that I tested it quite rigorously before I released it. Did you not understand that the bartender won't take your bill because he wants a tip, hence the sarcastic response?
What door troubles did you have? They just open for you. You don't really have to worry about doors.
Harry Coburn, January 19, 2015 - Reply
Hi Lord Dim, thanks for responding! I agree with the other commenters; this does have a modern Leisure Suit Larry feel to it. Here's a transcript of what I'm getting:
(Spoiler - click to show)
From Inside Club Sixtynine
> x bill
It’s a really old bill, dude.
> sit in stool
You sit down next to the hot bitch.
> order martini
“That will be ten dollars.”
> give bartender the ten-dollar bill
The bartender is only interested in you ordering drinks.
[I think the only weird thing I might have done first was to try paying with the card first and have it be declined.]
For the apartment door, here's what I'm seeing:
(Spoiler - click to show)
Starting at the elevator on the 4th floor. I have the apartment keys:
> n
You stride out of the elevator and head down the hall to your apartment and open the door.
Living Room
The living room is large area where the most important thing to you, the flatscreen TV, also happens to be the biggest thing in the room– an impressive 72-inch flatscreen on the west well. In front of the TV is a dark blue couch where many a lay has occurred.
To the east is the kitchen. The front door is to the south.
You can see a remote here.
> s
The door is closed, dude.
[First error. I can automatically open the door going north from the elevator but it doesn't work going south. I'm sure there's an extension that will automatically open doors when you try to go in direction they are in and you have the key, but the name escapes me.]
> open door
You leave your apartment, locking the door behind you, and head to the elevator. When it arrives, you step inside.
[Here's another bit of door weirdness. While having the key from the elevator]
> n
You stride out of the elevator and head down the hall to your apartment and open the door.
Living Room
The living room is large area where the most important thing to you, the flatscreen TV, also happens to be the biggest thing in the room– an impressive 72-inch flatscreen on the west well. In front of the TV is a dark blue couch where many a lay has occurred.
To the east is the kitchen. The front door is to the south.
You can see a remote here.
> lock door
That’s not a verb I recognize.
> unlock door
You don’t have the key.
[Since you need an apartment key to get out, it made sense to me that you could lock and unlock the door as well.]
And a few minor things in the bathroom:
(Spoiler - click to show)
Bathroom
Other than the bedroom, you seem to spend most of your time in the apartment in here, wiping down and polishing the mirror. Below the mirror on the south side is a faux marble countertop with a bathroom sink. On the north side is the all-important shower, a medicine cabinet, and, of course, a toilet.
A can of your favorite Laxe musk body spray is on the counter.
A plastic tube of Laxe hair gel sits beside the sink, ready for you to use.
[Note that there are two things already on the counter from the description. The pill jar is still in the cabinet.]
> open cabinet
That’s already open.
> take pills
You can’t see any such thing.
[I know the cosbies inside the jar there have the alias of pills, so pills can't also be applied to the pill jar. Suggest adding "understand "pill bottle" as plastic orange pill jar" in your code.]
> take jar
Taken.
> put jar on counter
You can’t see any such thing.
[Suggest understand statement for countertop to add "counter". Description statement for the body spray says "is on the counter."]
> put jar on countertop
Putting things on the faux marble countertop would achieve nothing.
[I believe this is a default message. While it does guide the player to ignore putting things on the countertop, the description of the room clearly states that the body spray is is on the counter. Same with the hair spray, since the description states "Below the mirror on the south side is a faux marble countertop with a bathroom sink." Perhaps replacing the message in this situation with something like "No way man, you've got a system in the bathroom to look fine for the bitches. Putting things on the countertop would wreck my flow!"]
Hi Lord Dim, thanks for responding! I agree with the other commenters; this does have a modern Leisure Suit Larry feel to it. Here's a transcript of what I'm getting:
(Spoiler - click to show)
From Inside Club Sixtynine
> x bill
It’s a really old bill, dude.
> sit in stool
You sit down next to the hot bitch.
> order martini
“That will be ten dollars.”
> give bartender the ten-dollar bill
The bartender is only interested in you ordering drinks.
[I think the only weird thing I might have done first was to try paying with the card first and have it be declined.]
For the apartment door, here's what I'm seeing:
(Spoiler - click to show)
Starting at the elevator on the 4th floor. I have the apartment keys:
> n
You stride out of the elevator and head down the hall to your apartment and open the door.
Living Room
The living room is large area where the most important thing to you, the flatscreen TV, also happens to be the biggest thing in the room– an impressive 72-inch flatscreen on the west well. In front of the TV is a dark blue couch where many a lay has occurred.
To the east is the kitchen. The front door is to the south.
You can see a remote here.
> s
The door is closed, dude.
[First error. I can automatically open the door going north from the elevator but it doesn't work going south. I'm sure there's an extension that will automatically open doors when you try to go in direction they are in and you have the key, but the name escapes me.]
> open door
You leave your apartment, locking the door behind you, and head to the elevator. When it arrives, you step inside.
[Here's another bit of door weirdness. While having the key from the elevator]
> n
You stride out of the elevator and head down the hall to your apartment and open the door.
Living Room
The living room is large area where the most important thing to you, the flatscreen TV, also happens to be the biggest thing in the room– an impressive 72-inch flatscreen on the west well. In front of the TV is a dark blue couch where many a lay has occurred.
To the east is the kitchen. The front door is to the south.
You can see a remote here.
> lock door
That’s not a verb I recognize.
> unlock door
You don’t have the key.
[Since you need an apartment key to get out, it made sense to me that you could lock and unlock the door as well.]
And a few minor things in the bathroom:
(Spoiler - click to show)
Bathroom
Other than the bedroom, you seem to spend most of your time in the apartment in here, wiping down and polishing the mirror. Below the mirror on the south side is a faux marble countertop with a bathroom sink. On the north side is the all-important shower, a medicine cabinet, and, of course, a toilet.
A can of your favorite Laxe musk body spray is on the counter.
A plastic tube of Laxe hair gel sits beside the sink, ready for you to use.
[Note that there are two things already on the counter from the description. The pill jar is still in the cabinet.]
> open cabinet
That’s already open.
> take pills
You can’t see any such thing.
[I know the cosbies inside the jar there have the alias of pills, so pills can't also be applied to the pill jar. Suggest adding "understand "pill bottle" as plastic orange pill jar" in your code.]
> take jar
Taken.
> put jar on counter
You can’t see any such thing.
[Suggest understand statement for countertop to add "counter". Description statement for the body spray says "is on the counter."]
> put jar on countertop
Putting things on the faux marble countertop would achieve nothing.
[I believe this is a default message. While it does guide the player to ignore putting things on the countertop, the description of the room clearly states that the body spray is is on the counter. Same with the hair spray, since the description states "Below the mirror on the south side is a faux marble countertop with a bathroom sink." Perhaps replacing the message in this situation with something like "No way man, you've got a system in the bathroom to look fine for the bitches. Putting things on the countertop would wreck my flow!"]
Bagpiper, January 26, 2015 - Reply
The bartender has been fixed. I've uploaded the new version to the website. Thanks for pointing the bug out. That was a really terrible one. Unfortunately I didn't know enough about the debugging tools at the time to test the transaction routine properly. For Release 2 I'm going to add more to the game. Certainly a hallway would be nice. :)
The bartender has been fixed. I've uploaded the new version to the website. Thanks for pointing the bug out. That was a really terrible one. Unfortunately I didn't know enough about the debugging tools at the time to test the transaction routine properly. For Release 2 I'm going to add more to the game. Certainly a hallway would be nice. :)
Bagpiper, January 25, 2015 - Reply
Great! Thanks a lot for your feedback, Harry! I know the doors are a bit weird (It's my first Inform game). They'll be fixed. The bartender thing has to do with a weird thing with the Conversation Framework. I can fix that.
You're right about the counters. Like the doors, they're very clumsy. It's good that you've found most of it. How did the garage work for you? That was tricky. Once you solve the garage, you can buy the drink.
How long does it usually take to get a release uploaded to the archive? It seems like it's still in progress and it's been a week.
Great! Thanks a lot for your feedback, Harry! I know the doors are a bit weird (It's my first Inform game). They'll be fixed. The bartender thing has to do with a weird thing with the Conversation Framework. I can fix that.
You're right about the counters. Like the doors, they're very clumsy. It's good that you've found most of it. How did the garage work for you? That was tricky. Once you solve the garage, you can buy the drink.
How long does it usually take to get a release uploaded to the archive? It seems like it's still in progress and it's been a week.
Hanon Ondricek, January 19, 2015 - Reply
Thank you for creating this game and replying to questions! A game like this is a huge effort and I understand how it can feel you've thoroughly tested. Take it from me though, as I have been burned by this; as the author you know your game -too- well to test it completely and you won't know about guess-the-verb and other leaps of logic that a new player will need to make to get through. Just like you said "isn't it obvious you need to fix your hair?" -- no, not necessarily. I was temporarily stuck because I didn't have the keys. You did put a good clue for that since you hint that you can't turn on the tv without the remote, and under the couch cushion is a logical place to look and gives you the keys. One cannot predict how players will see your world and only with 2nd party testing will these things become apparent.
You did a great job with this, so please take our criticism as constructive to make this and future games even better. You have talent, so I hope this feedback is not discouraging.
Thank you for creating this game and replying to questions! A game like this is a huge effort and I understand how it can feel you've thoroughly tested. Take it from me though, as I have been burned by this; as the author you know your game -too- well to test it completely and you won't know about guess-the-verb and other leaps of logic that a new player will need to make to get through. Just like you said "isn't it obvious you need to fix your hair?" -- no, not necessarily. I was temporarily stuck because I didn't have the keys. You did put a good clue for that since you hint that you can't turn on the tv without the remote, and under the couch cushion is a logical place to look and gives you the keys. One cannot predict how players will see your world and only with 2nd party testing will these things become apparent.
You did a great job with this, so please take our criticism as constructive to make this and future games even better. You have talent, so I hope this feedback is not discouraging.
Bagpiper, January 25, 2015 - Reply
Thanks a lot, Hanon! I appreciate it a great deal! I learned a lot about what seems obvious and what doesn't by comparing Dungeon with Zork I and looking at the improvements they made.
I'm glad the TV clue worked. It's a (forgive the pun) key puzzle to solve.
You're right. Saying "You can't go out like that" is far too vague. I'll definitely make that clearer.
Thanks a lot, Hanon! I appreciate it a great deal! I learned a lot about what seems obvious and what doesn't by comparing Dungeon with Zork I and looking at the improvements they made.
I'm glad the TV clue worked. It's a (forgive the pun) key puzzle to solve.
You're right. Saying "You can't go out like that" is far too vague. I'll definitely make that clearer.
Hanon Ondricek, January 18, 2015 - Reply
Similarly, the game wants you to complete a certain number of tasks before you can leave the apartment. If you've not done them all, the game says you aren't ready, but doesn't give any sort of idea what else you are missing. Since the game is obviously checking what you've done to permit you out the door, it shouldn't be hard for it to give you a nudge on the order of "Dude your hair doesn't look great. You can't go out yet."
That said, the author has put a lot of work into this. It's like a rough JERSEY SHORE remake of Leisure Suit Larry.
Similarly, the game wants you to complete a certain number of tasks before you can leave the apartment. If you've not done them all, the game says you aren't ready, but doesn't give any sort of idea what else you are missing. Since the game is obviously checking what you've done to permit you out the door, it shouldn't be hard for it to give you a nudge on the order of "Dude your hair doesn't look great. You can't go out yet."
That said, the author has put a lot of work into this. It's like a rough JERSEY SHORE remake of Leisure Suit Larry.
Bagpiper, January 19, 2015 - Reply
You're supposed to know that you need to fix your hair before you go out. I didn't think it was that hard a puzzle.
You're supposed to know that you need to fix your hair before you go out. I didn't think it was that hard a puzzle.
Hanon Ondricek, January 19, 2015 - Reply
Sure, but is that the only thing required to exit the apartment?
Sure, but is that the only thing required to exit the apartment?
Harry Coburn, January 19, 2015 - Reply
I know for me when I was leaving the apartment it was finding the keys that was missing, not the hair.
I know for me when I was leaving the apartment it was finding the keys that was missing, not the hair.
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